Talk:The Dwarf (KQ1 Manual)
Black elf? Where was that surmised? The lore only speculates that he was a dwarf or a leprechuan, explaining how the leprechuans got the shield in the first place... LOL.Baggins 15:46, June 20, 2012 (UTC) : The lore speculates that if he wasn't a dwarf, he could have been one of the other dimunituve races -- it specifically suggests leprechauns (which makes sense because they have the shield) but black elves are also a race of small folk, and given the lore we have about Black Elves (mischievous to downright evil) versus the lore we have about leprechauns (playful more often than evil) it seems more than possible. Crayauchtin 16:02, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::You mean lore for the 'dark elves'. Still would make no sense how it went from a dark elf to a leprechaun, anymore than it went from a 'dwarf' to a leprechuan. Actually it suggests that in general most are more michievous than evil, but a few are evil as they kidnap babies. ::Did you know that Leprechauns were going to be portrayed as evil in KQ8? One was going to be a boss enemy in the castle! But was replaced with a spriggan in the end! They had also throught of putting in a red cap goblin as that boss as well, before settling on the spriggan! Interesting trivia. ::Leprechauns in KQ1 are actually pretty dangerous if you don't have the items needed to get past them... and will kill (they move past playful and michieviousness to something else!)! ::Also KQ1 hintbook or the original KQ1 manual had them classified under the 'Dangerous/evil creatures/bad guys' category for whatever reason!Baggins 16:08, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::::It could also be a dark elf, yes, excepting for the fact that dark elves are the evil counterpart to sylvan elves which would make them taller.... Now, there's a big difference between stealing a shield that protects an entire kingdom and kidnapping babies. The whole "healing the diseased woman" scam seems much more up the alley of black elves if you ask me. But it's really all speculation -- speculation that the lore more than leaves room for. Crayauchtin 16:24, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::Why not point out that its your speculation? The KQC focuses on the leprechauns in several places throughout the book as the culprits... IIRC, when Graham actually does reach the leprechauns both he and the chronicler both agree that it was probably the leprechauns stole the shield, and not a 'real dwarf'. ::As for the dark elves, some are tall, most are short actually(apparently most are short), that's why they are confused with gnomes and dwarfs! That's why they are also considered 'little people', much like the gnomes and dwarfs. Speaking of Gnomes, some are bad as well, see Adventure in Serenia!Baggins 16:38, June 20, 2012 (UTC) :::::It does point out that it's speculation -- it does not at any point say "The dwarf was actually a black elf." It's clearly a speculative statement. Which, as we've discussed before, are not discouraged on this Wiki. :::::By the way, since there's no indication that the Dwarf who steals from Graham in KQ1 and KQ2 is the same character, the information for that character should not be in this article unless you want to speculate that it's the same entity (much as the Sorcerer and the Enchanter have separate pages, though they could be the same person). The page for the character you're describing is here -- Little Dwarf (and we should make a mage for Citizen Bandit, I had thought that the KQC described them as being the same dwarf but if not then Citizen Bandit needs a separate page as well. (I'd apparently just forgotten like everything about the Dwarf in KQ2. Probably because I think "Citizen Bandit" is an awfully stupid sounding name. :P) Crayauchtin 17:51, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::The big problem here is that all three have the same 'official' proper noun title, "The Dwarf". ::The uses of "false dwarf", thieviing dwarf", "little dwarf", "stealing dwarf", or whatever are only 'descriptions", and not titles. At least with KQ2 dwarf, you have both "The Dwarf" (according to the KQ2 Hintbook) and if Graham's nickname "Citizen Bandit" if you prefer... (I have an article for both on the Omnipedia). ::::Likewise you can separate the Enchanter and the Sorcerer into three articles they have three proper titles in the games, hintbooks, and manuals; The Sorcerer, and The Enchanter, and The Wizard (in KQ1NES, although that's going to give you a bit of an issue with the The Wizard from KQ8), :p...Baggins 17:56, June 20, 2012 (UTC) :::: ::::I know that they all have the same "official proper noun title", which is why their articles used descriptive names like "False Dwarf" and "Little Dwarf" to make it more specific. A character's article needs to be about that character though -- and really, I think each character just needs one article (though it may be useful in some cases to have some redirects around to get everyone to the right page!) Crayauchtin 18:04, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::Actually if you want to break them down, the more proper way to do it, as wikipedia, and other encyclopedies would do it would be to split them The Dwarf (KQ1 Manual), The Dwarf (KQ1), The Dwarf (KQ2), thus you stick to the proper titles, but have them separated. Remember if people are searching for these on your wiki, more than likely they are going to be searching by the official title (and by specific source), and not some vague or obscure description.Baggins 18:10, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::::None of them are particularly obscure and all of the descriptions are gleaned from the official source (you know, because the KQ1 manual explicitly says "the false dwarf" in it, for instance), but okay, fine. Crayauchtin 18:19, June 20, 2012 (UTC) ::It's not a proper title, as you try to call it "False Dwarf", its only 'lower case'. The Dwarf on the other hand is 'upper case'.Baggins 18:22, June 20, 2012 (UTC)